Scott Jeffery Miller has energy and advice for days! Scott starts off our fast paced conversation about finding your core values and having a personal board of directors. And this is all before we ask him the big question!
The decision that changed the trajectory of his life is his marriage later in life to his wife, Stephanie. Not only did he have three beautiful sons but also he learned more about himself, gained self-awareness and achieved even more in his career. Scott discusses how vulnerability is a key to his success and how he had to learn this at an early age as he had a severe stutter.
You don’t want to miss all the amazing coaching moments with Scott!
Capping a 25-year career where he served as a chief marketing officer and executive vice president of business development, Scott currently serves as FranklinCovey’s senior advisor on thought leadership, leading the strategy and development of the firm’s speaker’s bureau, as well as the publication of podcasts, webcasts, and bestselling books. Scott also hosts On Leadership with Scott Miller, the world’s largest and fastest-growing leadership podcast, reaching more than six million people weekly. In addition, Scott authors a leadership column for Inc.com and is the bestselling author of the Mess to Success series.
Connect with Scott to learn more about him and his background:
Sign up for our newsletter at https://abbraccigroup.com/. Please subscribe, leave a review and tell your friends about our podcast. Learn more about the CHARGE® model by purchasing the book, The Way of the HR Warrior. Let us know about the moments for you that changed your life trajectory. Drop us a note via our website.
Keri [00:00:13] Welcome to the reCHARGE® Your Life podcast with me, Dr. Keri Ohlrich and Kelly Guenther. We are thrilled to talk to people who have made a decision that reCHARGE® their lives. Often they push themselves out of their comfort zones and took risks. We want to know about that decision point. Why did they make that decision? And most importantly, how can we learn from them? Kelly and I are passionate HR professionals, and together we co-founded our HR consulting firm Abbracci Group. We have talked to amazing people throughout our careers and listen to them as they made decisions that changed their lives and knew that these inspirational stories would help others. And why did we call it reCHARGE®? It's based on a book I coauthored called The Way of the HR Warrior, and in it we have a leadership model, CHARGE, which stands for courage, humility, accuracy, resiliency, goal oriented and exemplary. We know that people used one or more of these qualities to help them make their decisions, and we want to learn from them. Now sit back, listen and be inspired by these stories, and then do something to reCHARGE® your life. Let's get to it.
Kelly [00:01:19] Hi, everyone, it's Kelly. We're so thrilled to have Scott Miller as our special guest, capping a 25 year career where he served as a chief marketing officer and executive vice president of business development. Scott Jeffrey Miller currently serves as Franklin Covey, senior advisor and thought leadership, leading the strategy and development of the firm's speaker's bureau, as well as the publication of podcasts, webcasts and bestselling books. Scott also hosts On Leadership with Scott Miller, the world's largest and fastest growing leadership podcast, reaching more than six million people weekly. In addition, Scott authors, a leadership column for Inc.com and is the best selling author of the Mess to Success series. Scott, welcome. We always like to start our podcast by asking what you do when you want to push yourself and expand your thinking.
Scott [00:02:16] Well, first of all, I love your intro music, best podcast intro ever, and then to answer your question, I don't listen to my detractors. I think the more public you are, the more your influence grows, the more people read your columns or podcast or just your business. Your career grows, the more you're going to have detractors, naysayers, people who are jealous, quite frankly, of your success and courage and boldness. So what I typically don't do is get dragged down by people who are criticizing me. I tend to go with my gut, although I'm I'm I'm not a data wonk. I certainly understand the value of facts and data and information, but my gut has served me really well in life. I guess you could call my gut, my instinct, I my sense of understanding someone's character and their intent. And so I have a lot of confidence in my capabilities, in my energy and my stamina. I'm not afraid to make mistakes. You know, Rachel Hollis, who was a good friend of mine, she said that most people don't fear failure. What they fear is having other people see them fail. I have no fear of having someone see me fail. To me, that word isn't even in my vocabulary. I just see it as well. That didn't work. Let's try this. I mean that genuinely, I like to try things new, whether it be writing a book or a magazine column or a radio program. If it doesn't work like I thought it did, I just take off the lessons and I pivot and go, Try something new. I don't even have failure in my vocabulary.
Keri [00:03:50] Scott, what I want to get to some of that, but what are some of the things that you like if you want to kind of unplug and listen to a different viewpoint? What do you read or what do you podcasts you listen to? What kind of do you like to push your thinking?
Scott [00:04:08] You. I am a voracious reader. Since I'm 53 years old, I live in Salt Lake City with my wife, Stephanie and our three sons, and they all, to her horror, have my energy level. So there's a lot of noise in the house. I know, I know, grieving three many me's around here. Well, I am. Since I was 16 years old, I have subscribed to and read 40 magazines a month. I've I've definitely print newspapers a day. I still kind of read old school. I read about one hundred and fifty plus books a year, both for my podcast and my column listened to a lot of podcast. I have a time. I tend to be a visual learner. I like to read the words. So I I subscribe to The Wall Street Journal and to the New York Times. I watch CNN and I watch Fox to kind of balance each other out and understand how I can make my own opinions. But I like to play tennis. I like to vacation, I like to drink champagne. If all my social media, you see that. So I believe, like my friend Jillian Michaels told me, you can have everything in life. You just can't have it all at the same time. Yes, very much. I very much believe in this idea of there are seasons in your life. Seasons of balance. Seasons of imbalance. And I try to subscribe to that. Some months and quarters are hard charging and then others, I tend to relax and repair a bit more.
Keri [00:05:30] Yeah, that's such a good point, Scott. It really balances over time. So it's not that you can do everything at once every Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday, and it's all in perfect balance. But sometimes it's going to you're going to do you're going to be over-indexed in February and March, but then it will calm down in April and May. So I thank you for giving us that quote.
Scott [00:05:51] And it will calm down if you if you ensure it calms down, because if you don't manage your schedule and don't say no to some commitments, then every day will be like your March and February. So the second part of that equation is. If your schedule in life is going to come back imbalance, it won't do it organically, you have to make it, so you have to bring it into balance with your decisions.
Keri [00:06:14] So, Scott, that I have I have an original question for you, but I want to ask this one. How do you you have so much energy? How do you say no? What? How do you what's the filter and decision making criteria that you have for know?
Scott [00:06:27] Well, I wouldn't say that I'm especially good at saying no. First of all, I like opportunity. I like validation. I'll be honest, I like it when people invite me to collaborate or work in their company or consult. I like everyone. I I like to feel needed and included, so it's a challenge for me. But I will tell you this. I think one of the best exercises I ever engaged in in my adult life was identifying my values. It sounds like a corporate, you know, values clarification process, but it is kind of a personal process. And after hearing a speech from one of our co-founders, Hiram Smith, who was a co-founder of Franklin Covey, I went off as I was single back in my 30s and I clarified my values, my commitment to memory. Phil Powell, p h i l p a l purpose, health, integrity, loyalty, positivity, abundance and learning. Philip Powell and for the last, gosh, nearly 15 plus years or more more, I have done my best to live my life intensely with those values. And if something doesn't align with my values or my role, my role as a husband, my role as a father of three sons, my role as a provider to my family, a role as an author, a podcast host, and I have no choice but to say no because I cannot take on any more roles or any more values. So my advice to your listeners is if you haven't clarified the few most important roles in your life and then aligned them with articulating your personal values, it's a great opportunity to bring those both to illustration and to ruins. And that will automatically help you in saying no.
Keri [00:08:16] That is great advice. We've had some speakers on this podcast talking about find your personal values, find your core and things do fall into place. Doesn't mean it's easy, doesn't mean it doesn't take energy and time. But once you do that, you can make those decisions and it is easier. Scott, like you said, Well, if that's not going to serve me as a dad, a husband, a podcast host right now, that's kind of an easy no because that one's not serving the purpose and it's not meeting my core values. So I love that you said that.
Scott [00:08:49] I think it's easier said than done. You know, I was everything. I went away, right? Welcome to life. Yeah, my good friend Voltaire, right, said, common. Is it common practice? I I think I was single up until I was thirty three. And so Franklin, I know when Frank, I'm sorry. That's not true. That's not true. I'm sorry. I didn't, you know, I was single. I was about forty three, OK? And Stephen Covey, of course, the co-founder of our company, the author of the book The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, talked a lot about your personal mission statement. It's a big part of what we do. Never. It never resonated with me as a single guy in my 40s. I don't know. Drink more champagne if I don't, my mission is that's why the values exercise so resonated with me. I still, to this day, don't know what my mission is. I mean, I think now it probably is. Parenthood grudgingly is what it is. The values exercise was very tangible. Mm-Hmm. And I strongly recommend you take some time, days, hours, a couple of weeks and get clear on your values. And most importantly, don't choose your values based on anyone else's opinion. Yeah. Gary Kelly, I don't give a flying flip. What you think about my values is I did not pick them to impress you or anybody else, or to make them sound good. I picked them based on what I wanted my life to be about, and I did it in my mid-thirties. Fortunately, wasn't in my mid 70s, which I hope to be around by, but my youngest son is doing his best to end that they have his annoying personality.
Keri [00:10:29] Mine just said, "I'm here to overthrow you, Mom." And I just said, "Ok, well..."
Scott [00:10:34] I never thought about that. They're here to overthrow us. See my wife and I think that they plot every night up in the attic. How can we destroy their marriage tomorrow? Yeah, we can. Ten minutes over coffee. We agree not to let that happen each morning as positive daily fight to win it back.
Keri [00:10:49] I will say my son is very honest, so he is like, I will destroy you. I will. I will rule you at some point. And this is our talk in the car yesterday, and I said, Oh, thanks, honey. And he said, "Just so you know, I'll destroy you." And I said, "Thanks, Pumpkin."
Scott [00:11:08] Hey, in the unwise words of President W. Bush, "Bring it on." Yeah, I said unwise words. I thought, Yeah, you're right. You don't. You don't hang a banner up on an aircraft carrier and tell your enemy to bring it on. You know, do it.
Keri [00:11:24] Yeah. Yeah, not the not the best. We've accomplished it. Yeah. Mission accomplished. What? But I want to go back to that. One of the first things you said, Scott, before we get to the big question because I wanted to see how you manage this because you're you're such a learner, you're open to all this feedback. And you said in the beginning, kind of the more public you get, the more there's hate bots and chatter and just the detractors. And so how do you figure out, you know what? That's kind of B.S. and they're just doing it to like, you know, amp up and juice up their Twitter followers. But when do you realize? No, that's actually some good critiques that I want to kind of. I want to integrate that into who I am. How do you how do you kind of manage that? Because I'm sure, like you said, because the more popular you get, the more you're in the public eye, you get more feedback all the time.
Scott [00:12:16] Well, it's very true, right? I mean, if you read about me on Glassdoor, you would send the police to my house if you actually believe what people have written about me. So, you know, I generally turn 50, that's my answer.
Keri [00:12:28] Turn age really is helpful, is it if you do go? Yeah, don't. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Scott [00:12:35] My my wife is about 13 years younger than I am, and I keep telling her, Honey, call me when you're 50 because something magical happens when you generally care. I think a couple of things is I've always recognized that, you know, there is a level of vitriol out there and it just tends to explode when people are jealous of your confidence, of your risk, taking of your, of your ability to try and and fail and then pick yourself up again. What I've done is I have surrounded myself with a very small but vital number of wise people. I didn't say smart, I said wise, because they're not the same. Yeah. So I've got about five or six people that I know what their intent is. They have my best interests at heart. And I know that they want me to succeed, so when they sit down and give me tough feedback on a social post or an ink column or a book I wrote or an interview or whatever it is, it's rare. But when it comes, I am very deliberate. Not to discount it, refute it, explain it or defend it. I listen very carefully. And then I get extremely vulnerable. I ask them, So why? Why do you think I did that? That I seem jealous, that I seem insecure, that I seem in over my head, that they seem unprepared? Why do you only know about me? Why do you? You get the point. So I have surrounded myself with the board of directors that is small, but a group of trusted advisers. And I and I generally, almost without exception, take their feedback. I'd like to think that I'm on an improving journey of self-awareness. The topic I'm kind of obsessed with. You know, none of us are as self-aware as we think we are right. My wife reminds me that every Friday night on the cold, long, silent drive home from the dinner party when she says, You had to go there, you promised me, you promised me, you can not talk about Trump. I get a lot of feedback from my wife. That's it. I'm mindful. I'm mindful. But you know, I don't know what. My books have thousands of collective reviews, and I have not read them all because I don't get infused. I don't find the critiques emboldening. I'm human, right? I mean, I have an ego and I'm fragile. I generally don't always go to the praise. I go to the people that I trust their intent. Mm hmm. And their intent is my success, whether it be my brand or my financial success or my marriage success, or just my success at helping lift other people up. And and that group has been invaluable to me.
Keri [00:15:23] Hmm. I. Well, we haven't even asked the big question of you, Scott, and usually we ask for actions and advice at the end. But I'm so excited that already 15 minutes in two pieces that we have talked about before, but it's, you know, we're humans. We need to hear it millions of times before we do it. It seems like one know your values, know your core, know what drives you, make decisions from it and don't really care what other people think of those values. However, be sure to have that trusted circle around you, that board of directors. That really does give you that real feedback, because if you don't have that, then you you can go off course pretty quickly without people who care about you and your growth. And so, like you said, it's not because they're jealous or they want to tear you down because some people just don't like stuff because they don't want you to be successful. These are people who are invested in you as Scott Miller and want you to be successful and therefore will give you this good feedback and help you and then you're open and vulnerable to listen to it.
Keri [00:16:21] Oh, beautiful, Scott!
Scott [00:16:23] And do it proactively. Not just, I mean, how many business titans and celebrities had their brands. They're following their income distraught over night because they posted something irresponsible on social media. And it wasn't their intent. Their intent was not to, you know, pick a fight with someone. They just weren't thoughtful or didn't have a group of advisors to understand what could be the unintended consequences. I mean, I don't understand white privilege until I really dug into it. I didn't understand cultural appropriation until I dug into it. And so I think it's important to have people that are your mentors proactively help you, and I think I would redefine the word mentor. You don't have to know your mentor. Most of my mentors don't even know I exist. Hmm. I just I just follow their radio programs or read their books or go to their conferences. And I think about, you know, what would this person do, what they were going to post this? Or would this person say? Or what lesson do I have to learn from someone else who waded into this and got eaten alive? Yeah.
Keri [00:17:28] Yeah, I really that's that's great, because you can learn why learn a lot from just watching documentaries, movies story is just the way. Even a fictional story, the way someone's handled things. I'll say what, I have handled it that way, or how would I have done that? Or I don't want to be seventy five and regret half my life because I didn't I wasn't vulnerable or I didn't bond with people.
Scott [00:17:50] I think most of your life lessons have come from me in the last 20 minutes.
Keri [00:17:54] Pretty much, Scott. Pretty much, pretty much. I think we're done now.
Scott [00:17:58] Humility, humility is not one of my strengths, by the way.
Keri [00:18:01] Well, good. I guess you should use that as one of your charges,
Scott [00:18:05] but I'm self-aware. I'm not a humble person.
Keri [00:18:09] I love it. Well, let's ask the big question what is a decision that you made or was made for you that changed the trajectory of your life? And what are some of those charged qualities, son's humility that helped you with that?
Scott [00:18:23] You're going to hear a consistent theme here. I can think of many decisions, but I'll tell you it was getting married to Stephanie. I told you I was single up until my early 40s. Very comfortable being a bachelor. I never thought I would get married. Honestly, that that kind of idea never really appealed to me, which was interesting, you know, being raised a Catholic and still a member of that faith and hopefully good standing. And so it kind of happened serendipitously. But when I married Stephanie, I obviously was very set in my ways in my 40s and her in her late 20s at the time. This was, you know, 13 years ago. But Stephanie brought me what I lacked in my life, which was many things, but one was a governor. Hmm. Meaning, you know, like a governor on my engine, you're going to say what? You're going to wear, what you're doing, what? And that was really valuable to me, I'm not advocating marriage for everyone, I had a very happy single life and I'm married to the rest of my life. I'm not advocating that. What I am advocating is if you are not married or if in your marriage, your spouse or partner isn't your governor, meaning your Jiminy Cricket and you need to find one. Because I think every one of us, to my earlier point, needs someone in our life that we would. But we defer to them that their calm voice in this storm, that their questioning of your motive in your behaviors makes you take a breath and say, Do I understand the consequences positive and negative of this decision? Do I understand? I can't predict all the consequences of this, and I mean, I'm willing to own it and pay the price. So for me, I think, you know, I've made lots of I've made lots of great decisions. I've actually made very few big consequential decisions. I fairly deliberate. But the decision to get married or perhaps better just to have a really single trusted person in your life. Yeah, I think that's the best decision I've made, because I'll tell you I was. A very successful. Professional my career, but I was never going to get into the C-suite as a single guy because I just didn't have the maturity and the wisdom. Yeah, and it was Stephanie and her wisdom. By the way, Stephanie is not a professional. She's well-educated. She's never had a career outside the home. She's chosen, fortunately, to stay at home mom. That may not always be her choice. It is, in fact, her choice. But Stephanie is the key reason why I was named to the C-suite and became the CMO because of her just generally sound wisdom in life, and she helped to navigate some of the mistakes I was making, you know, from a human resource side and really kind of calmed me down and channeled my genius and started to really stopped allowing me to make potholes bigger than myself and then jump in them.
Keri [00:21:12] Yeah, I we call it in a nice way to say it. As we say, you need someone in your life to tell you you have spinach in your teeth because a lot of people won't tell you that. And so you need someone who loves you enough to say you have spinach, your teeth or the sass your way to say it is to call you out on your B.S.. Like, there needs to be someone in your life who's like that if you're so full of it, like just stop it right now. And it's a lot of us don't have that like you said, trusted advisor. So go back to your living the life. You're like, I don't need to get married. Like, So how does this change for you? What is it about? Stephanie, what happened that you said, You know what I'm like? I am set in my ways, but I'm going to try something new and I'm actually going to get married because that's a gigantic life change for someone in their forties.
Scott [00:22:05] No one has ever asked me this question. I hadn't thought about it until just now. But about four or five years prior to meeting Stephanie, I was at a trade show in Pasadena, California. It was a trade show for school board members, local school board members and a very elderly gentleman in his late 70s or 80s kind of stooped over came by our Franklin Covey booth. Mm-Hmm. And I got to chatting him up and was talking to him, and it was almost like the ghost of Christmas future, whatever that just happened to slip in the conversation with me that he'd never been married. And he looked at me as he kind of walked away and said, And it's been a lonely life. Don't follow my path. Wow. You just walked on. And I kind of looked at him and thought, what the right? And so, you know, several years pass, I get it and go out and start, you know, rapidly. I dated in my early 20s and like, you know, college relationships had my heart broken through my life into my career. And literally just serendipitously, I was living in Chicago for the company. And Stephanie actually followed a boyfriend back from college and she went to the gym that was her boyfriend, her brother by Hawaii. And. I asked her out to dinner. And we went to dinner, and that was it. Wow. And I tell you what I what most impressed me about her, quite frankly, she was, you know, considerably younger than me. You know, almost 13 years was what most I think accelerated. My interest was how graciously her and her then boyfriend broke up. No backstabbing, no lies, no hard feelings, no, this it was just all very respectful and gracious. He actually came to our marriage two years later and videotaped it and we were invited to his. We couldn't go, but I was so impressed. He really spoke to her character. I thought, You know what? This is the kind of person I could bring home to meet my mom if I was going to have children. This would be the woman that I would want to instill the values I was raised with, and she has proven to be on that point. For 13 years. Oh, right. So so whoever that gentleman was at that school board trade show, you were a transition figure and a young man's life you don't even know about.
Keri [00:24:32] Well, and it goes to your point, Scott, of your mentor sometimes are just people you you don't really know. And it could be just someone who said something to you at the Pasadena Convention Center and on an airplane at the store. Like they just say something, you go, Huh, that's really interesting. I'm going to add that that sticks with me and it stuck with you all this time.
Scott [00:24:54] You know, I told, I told a lie. Can I correct it?
Keri [00:24:57] Oh, I love it.
Scott [00:24:58] It was the right thing.
Keri [00:25:00] It was going to be cast.
Scott [00:25:01] It was the Anaheim Convention Center, not in Pasadena. When you said it back to me, I'm like, I've never even been to Pasadena.
Keri [00:25:07] What I was like,
Scott [00:25:12] I had to rewind.
Keri [00:25:15] All right. Cancel this recording now, Kelly, we're done. What? So what was then pre Stephanie, right? Scott like? And what was post like, what are some of the tangible things that you can see that actually significantly changed? And like you're like, you said you went to the C-suite and that would have happened. What are some other things that you're like? This just wouldn't have happened if I didn't if I wasn't married to her?
Scott [00:25:43] Well, I wouldn't have had a private plane or a Porsche, because that all goes to my kids private school tuition. Now, in all seriousness, I am more self-aware. I am more deliberate. I'm more contemplative. I'm less impulsive. I think about the consequences of the things I say to other people. I think Stephanie has also reinforced in me the difference between being fearless and being reckless. I used to be the kind of friend that always said what was on my mind. I had an opinion about your earrings and depended about the color interior of your car. I, depending about, you know, and I shared it with you, regardless of whether or not that hurt your feelings. I kind of had this arrogant sense that was my moral duty to give you feedback on your new haircut. And for some, in some ways, it was kind of funny in my brand and that Sky is outrageous. But you know, the fact of the matter, sometimes my fearlessness was recklessness with my brand and quite frankly, with your feelings, so I became much more. Not to my wife's probably measure, but much more deliberate around just understanding as an outward processor, I'm one of those creative types that has to hear myself say it out loud in order to confirm that it makes sense and believe I too. I think it's true. Mm-Hmm. It wasn't. I said the word Pasadena until I realized, no, it was Anaheim. Yeah. And Stephanie has helped me understand the consequence of having an outward narrative where everybody else also. Here's what's on my mind. And they think it is my position or my opinion when in fact I was just kind of role playing it. So I'm much more deliberate around when I have been masquerading as fearless but portraying myself.
Keri [00:27:35] As reckless I that is so insightful that difference between fearless and reckless, because I know you've heard it and companies as well where the leader will say, Well, I'm authentic, baby, and you're like, Well, that doesn't mean you can be an asshole.
Scott [00:27:48] It's very true. It's very true. We all met these colleagues. We they are these, you know, they're these gutless wonders. They throw grenades and they run the opposite way. Not everyone needs to hear what's on your mind. Yeah. And these people that this is I was one of these that was sort of, you know, I just tell it like it is and let the chips where it's like, you know what? That's really selfish, and I'm calling myself out. For many years. I was that kind of guy that just I just called it out. I thought, You know, OK, OK, and what are the consequences of that for those around you? So if anybody listening to this has that as their brand, I think there is some value to it. There's also some hurt to it. Ask yourself, does everybody need to know your opinion? And the answer to you is no.
Keri [00:28:38] Such a great question, does everyone need to know your opinion at this point, at this time in front of all these people? Right? So I might tell you have spinach your teeth, but I don't need to tell you in front, 200 people in...
Scott [00:28:49] Nicely, said. Nicely, said.
Keri [00:28:51] Right, I might try to do in a different way, but do I need to do it in this forum? Scott, what you you talk about learning, where did this your lifelong learner? Where did this vulnerability come from? Because you certainly Scott could have been like, Listen, little lady, I don't need to listen to your your stuff about being self aware or, you know, reckless versus fearless. I'm fearless, baby. Let it go. Where did your vulnerability come to accept all this feedback and say, You know what, I am going to modify some things, and I do want to grow and be a little bit different as a leader and a person and a husband.
Scott [00:29:27] You know, I'm a lifelong stutterer. I have a very pronounced stutter, I've been in speech therapy my entire life. I've had braces three times. There's a line headgear, retainers, eye to speech coaches. It's been a very debilitating stutter for me. I have been able to conquer it by knowing which words trigger my stutter. For some people, it's neurological, others it's physiological, some of it's psychological. And so. I'm going to guess in my mid-twenties. I began to realize that I could actually talk about this versus mean the ability to actually talk about a kind of call out the elephant in the room. Mm hmm. I read once a poem or a passage more like a passage that said there is great power in hanging a lantern on your own troubles. Mm-Hmm. Because when you hang a lantern on them, no one else can weaponize them against from you, against you. And I had spent my entire life people telling me, Scott, slow down Scott. Talk slower, Scott. Enunciate your words, Scott. Use your fast. And they were right. And many of them would share that with me not to be near lift me up, but to minimize me. And so I kind of decided just to hang a lantern on my own troubles. And what it did was it neutered all of my naysayers when settled with say, well, Scott as Aideed. I would say newsflash, print, not paper, because no one knew that right, and they weren't saying it to me to lift me up. They were saying it to me to minimize me, regardless of their protesting when I call them out on it. So as I started to become a more prominent and public leader and writer, I realized that there weren't any leadership books that talked about the difficulty of leadership. They all kind of raised it up, and leadership is the noblest trait and worship is for everyone. This version sucks. Yeah, it is unrelenting. It is going to unrewarding. It's like a dull baby sitting, I guess, quite frankly. And so my first book was called Management Next to Leadership Success 30 Challenges to become the Leader. You were thulo when I wrote a book about all the outrageous things I did in my career. Nothing illegal or unethical, sometimes close, but not officially in the book, like sold 100000 copies because most leadership books were all about everything wraps up great in a bow. Well, that wasn't my experience, so I think it was was really coming to understand the power of hanging a lantern on your own problems, 'cause then you could talk about them freely. And the more you can talk about your challenges freely, the more you give permission for those around you to do the same. Yes, and I think that's every leader's dream culture is where you can teach other people through your own messes and challenges, not gratuitously. Not as an open kimono confessional, so to speak, but to really be comfortable with your challenges. And then you give permission for others to talk about theirs. And then that's where their self-awareness grows. And in my 30 years in leadership, that's a great elixir for a fabulous culture.
Keri [00:32:45] It is so true and leaders. So struggle with that, Scott, because they're taught from these books now. Books are changing a little bit, but at least the traditional management theories where you're a leader and you have all the answers and you don't really show vulnerability, you don't share stories and that's your personal life. And so by opening up and being vulnerable, people then want to talk to you. So people tell me quite a few things, but I realize I also tell them quite a few things about my life. So they hear about my child or my struggles, and then guess what they do just like you? You will share because it's an open, it's an open space, but I will totally still hang a lantern on the problems because it is. I love that, Scott. That's so brilliant. We have a duty or genius, Scott. We've already given so much advice. What other advice or thoughts do you have for our listeners to help them when they're kind of going through their own struggles or trying to kind of define themselves and change maybe parts of their lives?
Scott [00:33:54] You know, the best advice I ever heard was from Dr. Stephen R. Covey, he wrote the book The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. It's a great book, pick up a copy. It's about eight thousand copies a week, it's insane. He died 10 years ago.
Keri [00:34:07] And if you haven't heard of that book, I don't know where you've been.
Scott [00:34:11] And as the chief marketing officer, I was often interviewed by the press on the book The Seven Habits of Highly Efficient People. And I would say, no, no, no, no, no. The title of his book is the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, not highly efficient people. There's a massive difference between efficiency and effectiveness. One's not better than the other. They just have a different place in your life. As you can tell from my energy and my resumé and in very productive person, I wake up every day at four o'clock and I write my blog or write my newsletter. I write my column for Inc magazine about my books, and then I do this and that and the other. And I collapse into bed at 9:30 every night, seven days a week, four to 9:30. I met Annoying Neighbor that gets up at four o'clock on Saturday and washes my car, makes my yard and goes my lawn to put the flowers in. By 7:30, I'm. I didn't start my day. I make no apologies for my productivity or my efficiency. But like your listeners, I can identify with me and my success in life because of my efficiency, when we take that efficiency mindset and we move it into our relationships with others. It doesn't work because you cannot be efficient with people. You can only be effective. So to quote Dr. Stephen R. Covey with people, fast is slow and slow is fast. So for those of you that are having challenges in any part of your life with your relationships, your business partners, your employees, your family members? Ask yourself, am I operating with them in my typical efficiency mindset? Or am I checked in? Am I focused? Am I always telling my story versus listening to their story? Do I interrupt? Do I always one up them? Do I consciously move out of my efficiency mindset, which, by the way, is one of my strengths, but not in relationships with people? And for me, that's been a profound difference in my life not to undermine what is my strength. But like all strength, when overplayed, they can become our weaknesses. Recognize. When and where in your life you should employ efficiency and where and when you should be more effective? Brendan Bouchard is a friend of mine, and he says most things in life are better done, slower. And as much as I hate that he's right.
Keri [00:36:52] You, I have before I throw it over to Kel, I have an example of that efficiency versus effectiveness. So like you, I traveled a lot and I traveled by myself for business and I was very efficient at it. I had a good packing system. I could be there five minutes before. I mean, I had a good, efficient system. I then started to travel with my husband and son, who are not business travelers, and I or my husband looked away, he said. You do know you're traveling with us now, right? It's not a business trip. And I was like, OK, because I was expecting them to be efficient like me. And it was more about efficiency than the effectiveness of getting the whole family on the trip to the airport in a good mood. And so I just, as you said that I was like, Oh yeah, that's the difference between I was being efficient versus effective family member, and I totally changed my mindset when I travel with them versus when I travel by myself for business. Just different, effective versus efficient. Thank you, Scott. I appreciate pleasure. I appreciate that. Kelly, there are so many nuggets with Scott. What is the one nugget that stands out for you the most? That's a hard that's a hard one. So I'm stalling for you for a second. It's very difficult.
Kelly [00:38:06] I just wonder, isn't listening to Scott if you've incorporated humor a lot into how you into your practice and in how you approach daily life as well?
Scott [00:38:19] Will you tell me my book? Is Management Mess to to Leadership Success? Yeah, most definitely. I mean, you know, as I have learned, and I can't tell you, there's a magical thing happens when you're 50. For some, it might be 40. Others it's like 70. Some it's never. But I think I just got a bit more grounding under myself, and I can absolutely laugh at my mistakes, call them out, use them as great teaching moments for other people. And I'm less insecure about my. By areas of deficiency, I don't try to cover them as much. I try to run with my strengths and not ignore my weaknesses. But at this point in my life, having lived more than half of it, I'm really kind of doubling down on on my strengths and recognizing what I'm never going to be. I'm not going to be a chemical engineer. I'm not going to be a commercial airline pilot. I'm not going to be an anesthesiologist. I'm not going to be an HR, thank God. And I do have other other other benefits to add. And so to your point, hopefully life gets funny. What's that phrase? If you're not eight, I always mix it up with another Republican like your thirties. You don't have a something. If you're not a liberal and you're 60 to have a conscience, I don't know.
Keri [00:39:30] I think there's something about, Yeah, if you don't, you don't have a heart or something, you're not. That's what it is. But if you want something around that, I know what you're talking about.
Scott [00:39:39] Yeah, I think that's true. I think I am. I'm understanding in my life that people behave the way they do for a reason. Less than 10 percent of the population are true seal paths. The rest of us are just trying to figure out our way. And when someone does something outrageous or crazy or insane to my standard, I'm increasingly more conscious of my reaction to it. And I asked myself, I wonder what's going on there? Something's going on. Not in a judgmental way. Just I wonder, is that their parent speaking is that their fear is that their first spouse? Is that their college headmaster? Why? What's going on that they think that way? And therefore, I'm I'm less less tempted to get drug into something because I used to love a good reaction. I was I was excellent at. You know, some people wish they would have said something three hours later. Oh, my craft was saying exactly what I needed to in the moment. Hmm. And as I have aged, I've become a little more forgiving. You might even say pre. Forgive me.
Kelly [00:40:47] Mm hmm. Well, it's incredible your story in part, I think especially now the world we live in, where opinions, whether you want to hear them or not, they're out there for everyone to see and hear through social media news, whatever. And the idea that kindness does go a long way to be kind, to pause, to think before you say something, it the words that you share the the the intention behind what you say. It really does go a long way. And I think if people can hear this message that you're sharing with with everyone it and do something with it, that's intentional and meaningful, what a better world we live in. So that's number one. But number two is also just the the appreciation that you share for your wife in in the in the changes that she's made. I mean, obviously, you have a lot of natural talent and abilities, of course, but the decision that you made to to find her and she defined you. And to make the decision together to embark on a life and to make to make a life together and to find for her to share and really develop, you know, your strengths so that you can you can live this best version of yourself. I just love it, and I love the credit that you give to her for that because I don't think that happens maybe as frequently as it should so that you are so vocal about it and that you that you share that I really hope she's able to listen to this as well.
Scott [00:42:23] Well, I might go tell her, but I'm not sure she's speaking to me this morning, so I got to go check. We'll see what's going on downstairs. Yeah, my marriage is like every other who had its ups and downs, and with those boys I'm getting hopefully today's a speaking day. We'll see. Or maybe it might, might be my pettiness. You never know. So.
Kelly [00:42:42] Oh well, thank you so much. And we really appreciate you, Scott, for sharing your story, for being so candid and honest with us in our audience. For anyone who's interested, please check out the show notes to hear all about Scott's information, including his link to his On Leadership with Scott Miller podcast. Please do one become of the six million weekly listeners enjoying that great legion of fans that he has. And then, of course, there will be a link to his Mess to Success series. We look forward to you joining and reading that as well. Thank you again, Scott. So much for being a guest on our podcast and for sharing your story.
Scott [00:43:22] Gosh, the pleasure was mine. Thank you for the spotlight.
Kelly [00:43:25] Thank you. Thank you for listening to the reCHARGE® Your Life podcast. Please sign up for our newsletter at Abbracci Group dot com and follow us on social media. You can find us on LinkedIn at Abbracci Group.com instagram at WarriorsofHR. And Twitter at Warriors_HR. Remember to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review and please tell a friend and be sure to drop us a note on how you are recharging your life. We can't wait to hear from you.