reCHARGE® Your Life

Ep61: Joy Sybesma reCHARGED

June 22, 2022 Dr. Keri Ohlrich & Kelly Guenther
reCHARGE® Your Life
Ep61: Joy Sybesma reCHARGED
Show Notes Transcript

Are you the kind of person who lights another person's candle? Or are you a "candle blower outer"? Our guest, Joy Sybesma, shares a recent Instagram post she saw from Brene Brown that spoke to the importance of surrounding ourselves with people who protect our light...and with whom we choose to protect the lights of our friends! This is one of many powerful messages Joy shares with us on her journey to become a coach and create her own business...on her own terms.

Joy Sybesma is the Founder & CEO of ScaleJOY, where she helps companies in hyper-growth in building customized solutions to scale their culture, from designing & delivering management development programs, to coaching CPOs, to advising first time managers, to training companies to teach the programs autonomously! 

Since founding ScaleJOY, Joy has supported 40 companies as an offsite facilitator, custom leadership program architect, fractional CPO, Coach and Advisor. Joy has over 15 years of experience in managing various People Operations functions, and recently served as Dataiku’s Chief People Officer where she managed the global People team including HR, Talent Acquisition, Learning & Development, and Office Management functions in all offices internationally, growing the company from 300 to 450 employees in one year. 

Prior to Dataiku, Joy served as Kargo’s Chief People Officer for three years where she helped scale the company and culture by balancing strategy & execution. Prior to Kargo, Joy was the VP of HR at News America Marketing (a division of News Corp.) 

In her earlier career, Joy held several roles in HR including Director of HR and Manager of Sales Training. Joy began her HR career at Macy's, where she rebuilt the Executive Development Program and trained over 300 people. Additionally, Joy co-founded a groundbreaking collaborative HR consulting organization called P5 Collaborative Consulting. 

As a result of her experiences, Joy brings a holistic approach to supporting organizations that is grounded in the reality that only a practitioner can bring. Joy is passionate about learning and leadership and believes it’s her mission to help people unlock the joy of growth at each stage of their journey and realize their potential. Joy is an alumnus of the University of Minnesota and a Harvard University certified Leadership Coach.

Connect with Joy to learn more about her and her background:

Sign up for our newsletter at Please subscribe, leave a review and tell your friends about our podcast. Learn more about the CHARGE® model by purchasing the book, The Way of the HR Warrior. Let us know about the moments for you that changed your life trajectory. Drop us a note via our website. 

Keri [00:00:13] Welcome to the Recharge Your Life podcast with me Dr. Keri Ohlrich and Kelly Guenther. We are thrilled to talk to people who have made a decision that recharges their lives. Often they push themselves out of their comfort zones and took risks. We want to know about that decision point. Why did they make that decision? And most importantly, how can we learn from them? Kelly and I are passionate HR professionals, and together we co-founded our consulting firm Abbracci Group. We have talked to amazing people throughout our careers and listen to them as they make decisions that change their lives and knew that these inspirational stories would help others. And why did we call it reCHARGE®? It's based on a book I coauthored called The Way of the HR Warrior. And in it we have a leadership model CHARGE which stands for Courage, Humility, Accuracy, resiliency, goal oriented and exemplary. We know that people use one or more of these qualities to help them make their decisions, and we want to learn from them. Now sit back, listen, and be inspired by these stories and then do something to recharge your life. Let's get to it. 

Kelly [00:01:19] Hi, everyone. It's Kelly. We're excited to have Joy Sybesma as our special guest. Joy is the founder and CEO of ScaleJoy, where she helps companies in hypergrowth, in building customized solutions to scale their culture from designing and delivering management development programs, to coaching CTOs, to advising first time managers, to training companies to teach the programs autonomously. Since founding scale Joy, Joy has developed 40 companies as an offsite facilitator, custom leadership program architect, fractional CPO coach and advisor. Joy has over 15 years of experience in managing various people, operations, functions and recently served as Dataiku's Chief People Officer, where she managed the Global People team, including HR Talent Acquisition, Learning and development and office management functions in all offices internationally, growing the company from 300 to 450 employees in one year. Prior to Dataiku, Joy served as Kargo's Chief People Officer for three years, where she helped scale the company and culture by balancing strategy and execution. Prior to Kargo, Joy was the VP of HR News America Marketing, which is a division of News Corp.. In her earlier career, Joy held several roles in HR, including director of HR and manager of sales training. Joy began her HR career at Macy's, where she rebuilt the executive development program and trained over 300 people. Additionally, Joy co-founded a groundbreaking collaborative HR consulting organization called P5 Collaborative Consulting. As a result of her experiences, Joy brings a holistic approach to supporting organizations that is grounded in the reality that only a practitioner can bring. Joy is passionate about learning and leadership and believes it's her mission to help people unlock the joy of growth at each stage of their journey and realize their potential. Joy is an alumnus of the University of Minnesota and a Harvard University certified leadership coach. Joy, thanks so much for joining us on the podcast today. We always like to start by asking what you do when you want to expand your thinking. 

Joy [00:03:31] Hi everyone. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast, Kelly. And I love this question. So, the first thing that came to my mind around expanding my thinking is I was thinking about my morning routine. So, I'm a severe early bird. And apparently, apparently there's a there's a sleep disorder that's called being a lark. And I'm definitely a lark. So I have had a morning routine for really probably at least ten years where I just really intentionally start my day. And I follow I follow a five step model for the morning routine, which is an acronym called Power. And the P is for peace and productivity. The O is for openness, the W is for wisdom, the E is for exercise, and the R is for reading. And I joke that after I became a mom, I. I sometimes only have a poor morning or an early morning. It's not always the power, the full power that I get, too, but I try to get up really pretty early and start my day really intentionally. And one of the things that I do to accumulate wisdom is something I call podcasting a problem. So I'm sure your podcast has come up for me in in my morning ritual where I literally think about what is what is stressful or uncertain about my day ahead, where do I need some inspiration or some guidance? And all I do is Google that phrase with the word podcast at the end, and 99% of the time I find some podcast episode that helps me be inspired and find a solution for the day. So when I need to push or expand my thinking, that's one of the things that I do as podcast a problem. And the few of the podcasts that tend to come up and really have amazing insights are Masters of Skill, which is Reid Hoffman from LinkedIn, his podcast, You Can Do Hard Things, the Glennon Doyle Podcast and Everything by Brené Brown does tend to be on on the regular repeat playlist. And one thing that stood out for me recently was on Masters of Scale. There is I, Richard. Sir Richard Branson was interviewed and he talked about how anytime he needed had like a flash of an idea that they followed this three step process called Act Act. And the first the A is ask the question, what if why not the C is call your network and the T is take one step. And so I try to follow that. And so any time I'm trying to potentially expand an idea or work through a problem that see that call, my network is is the second place I go. I'm super fortunate that I have a great network of advisors and thought partners and who I've worked really intensely to cultivate the relationships over time. And you can oftentimes find me just on the phone or on a zoom, talking to people who have more experience and are smarter than me to help me figure things out. So podcasting a problem calling my network, I'd say, are the two biggest things that came to my mind. 

Keri [00:06:41] Joy, I, first of all, so impressed with the process already. You're obviously a process thinker. 

Joy [00:06:48] What process thinker? 

Keri [00:06:49] Oh, my goodness. I have to go back to the first thing you said. I'm afraid to ask what time you wake up. So I'm going to ask it first since you said the. 

Joy [00:07:00] Biological clock goes off. Okay, I've I'm okay. But post baby, of course I reproduce two early birds myself. And so I've realized that the only time I actually have to myself in when my brain is the most unfair is at 4 a.m.. So that's that's the weekday time is 4 a.m. 

Keri [00:07:21] Okay. So all right, we're going to pause on that. That's 4 a.m at super early experiments. Yeah, it's very early. What? But what is this lark? How can people know what kind of bird they are? I go, Oh, what is this? Yeah. 

Joy [00:07:37] Well, apparently it's like how they define people who really get up incredibly early and only need a certain amount of sleep per night. So it's, it's maybe a disorder, but I think it's an advantage. I have, I guess I have more hours in the day. I joke with my team that, you know, you can get a lot done when you work off all the time zones. 

Keri [00:07:58] Yes, this is true. This is true. So you're a lark. So we're not going to call it a disorder. We're calling it advantage. There you go. I like what? So now what is this power? Where did this this this acronym come from? Where did you learn this? I haven't heard this before. 

Joy [00:08:14] I wish I knew the source. I knew the source. It wasn't me. It was definitely the actual words that follow the letters. I know that piece like, you know, like Kumbaya. Yeah, right. Is is the or original p of the author of four of Power Mornings. But I changed it to productivity because I found that the O the openness that was where I spent time in in thinking really deeply. Let some people call it meditation. I'm working towards meditation. I'm not there yet. But I found that, oh, that openness is really what I needed for peace. And the P that I needed was prioritization. And so I always start the power morning with asking myself the question, who needs me the most today? And the answer, you know, sometimes is myself or my team, or my client, or my kid or my husband or my friend. And then does my calendar reflect that priority. And so it's a really helpful way for me to just check in and make sure that I'm about to spend my time reflects where I feel like I'm most needed. Yeah. So that's, that's the P, and the openness. You know, I oftentimes just, just start with gratitude. I felt like that's a good place to start of just really checking in and having gratitude for all of the blessings in abundance and trying to expand my thinking into an avenue that I haven't before. Wisdom usually kind of goes hand in hand with that, and is sometimes my podcast a problem exercise? I love to exercise in the morning, but I'm giving myself grace and trying to just fit the E in wherever it fits in, in the day versus always in that morning chunk and then the hours reading. And I'm sure you both can agree with this. I have a never ending stack of books. Mm hmm. And I'm trying. I'm trying to remember how to read for fun, too, because you could read leadership books and and people related books all day long and not get through them all. But also, like a good a good novel is really fun, too. 

Keri [00:10:30] Yeah. Wow. Well, I can see if you're up at four, you could craft those letters. Yeah, you crush those letters. I can't read till maybe you're you're the ones you reproduces early birds maybe become late birds. And so because how old are they? 

Joy [00:10:48] They are almost six and almost three. Okay. And I don't know. I don't know. I think it might be I think this may be the fate that we're going to be early risers forever. But the thing they go to bed by 7:30. So there's the positive.  

Keri [00:11:02] Yeah, I mean that that's nice because they do need sleep. But let's talk when they're teenagers. Let's see if they're, if they're sleeping in and when they're like, Mom, I'm not getting up at 4 a.m. like, that's fine for you, but like no, but what you have to do. So that will be the follow up podcast in a few years.  

Joy [00:11:21] Yeah.  

Keri [00:11:23] I like that. So now that most of our listeners are like, Darn, I didn't I only did one of those letters today because I don't wake up at four. So but I love that. Thank you for sharing that. That's really great. 

Joy [00:11:37] I do want to say something though. I think, like that's it's about like if you've read Atomic Habits, I'm obsessed with this.

Joy [00:11:46] Like there's this quote, I may get it wrong, but the author says something like, you know, you you need to be thinking about the identity of the person you want to become. And every little micro action that you make is a vote, like casting a vote towards like you being that person. I think about that like I, I, I think a lot of people are like, how do I become a morning person? Joy I mean, you don't like you don't become a morning person, but you know where you're at your best and you really are intentional about maximizing that time. And I think that's like the lesson is who cares if it's all the P.O.W.E.R where it happens. It's just like, are you making incremental progress towards being your best self? That's how I think about it.  

Keri [00:12:29] I love that. And I was thinking too that even some mornings I could have maybe I have 30 minutes or an hour to do all the letters and then some mornings I might have 10 minutes and I can still do a little bit of everything. Or to your point, I'm just going to focus on exercise today, but or maybe I'll do the prioritization in the morning, but I'm going to do some meditation toward the end of the night. So, so at the end of the day. So I think just even having that, just if I touch base with myself just for 2 minutes and if I can read something for 10 minutes before I fall asleep at night, how great is that enough? 

Joy [00:13:04] Yeah, exactly. 

Keri [00:13:06] It doesn't have to be like an hour for each one that I automatically went to because I'm that girl. I was like, Oh, that would take like 7 hours, no, no, you're right. 

Joy [00:13:15] You're right. It could be like 2 minutes per letter. It does like a total. 

Keri [00:13:19] Yes. So now that the podcast is over and you give it now, okay, the big question, this is why I love the first part, Joy, because people give us like such. I love listening to how. People are expanding and learning all that. And then all of a sudden it's like 20 minutes in and killing me, like, oh, man, we're missing the main question. So the main question is, Joy, you know, it's come in. What is the decision that you made or was made for you that changed the trajectory of your life? And what are some of those charge qualities you use to help you through that decision? 

Joy [00:13:51] So I'm a cheat a little bit, and I think it's actually a series of a series of decisions that compounded each other. But I, I actually looked back at my journal in preparation for this, and as it was probably 12 years ago, where I first wrote down, I want to be an entrepreneur. And I think that I actually made several decisions over the course of my career to actually get to that place. So there's definitely the journey of being goal oriented. And I think the entrepreneur like the why behind it was I really, I think I've always wanted to make a big impact and I've always wanted to be my own boss. I felt like I, I have a vision for things. I, I believe I have some good leadership qualities that I could build a team and just I think there's, there's just an inherent self-confidence that can feel awkward, even saying that out loud. I think as a woman to to be proud of self-confidence can feel kind of gross if I'm being honest. But it's always been there. I just have have I always kind of had this deep down feeling like, I think I can do it, I can be successful. So long term goal of of being an entrepreneur. And as I climbed the like the, the ladder of human resources, I think I got really lucky in that it was getting kind of kind of to that point of being quote unquote experienced when the H.R. industry was going through a major transformation. And all of a sudden there was a seat at the table for H.R. and Google was like, you know, really focusing in on people and talking about how to how to make really compelling, you know, employer engaging organizations. And I kind of just saw that as an opportunity to to really, like, create a name for myself around the people space. And so the first decision was I got recruited to come to cargo and I'll never forget the email. I got the LinkedIn email from the president of Kargo and it said something along the lines of, We need someone to join our executive team and head up our people function. And and I think, you know, it's rare to see someone who's been so loyal at different companies and seen a steady growth trajectory. I'd love to meet for coffee. 


Keri [00:16:22] Wow. 


Joy [00:16:23] I know it was amazing. LinkedIn was great and I was four months pregnant with my first kid. And so I remember seeing my husband like, okay, I'm going to go and like give this guy, you know, all of my network and my contacts of people who are qualified for this job because clearly it's not me. And clearly I cannot go be the head of people at a tech company when I'm pregnant. Like this is ridiculous. So I remember I literally, like went to this interview and made my husband way at the coffee shop across the street. I'm like, this will be 15 minutes, you know, like, don't worry. And basically I meet this this president of the company and immediately I like was just obsessed with him. I'm like, Oh gosh, this guy is super brilliant and an amazing leader and I want to work for him. So I decided I was like, Oh, I'm going to tell him I'm pregnant, but basically as like a way out, right? And oh my God, I love what you're saying. I feel really inspired by you and what the company is doing, but like, too bad, right? I'm pregnant. And he goes, That is such great news. You can design our maternity leave policy and be the first person to take it. 

Keri [00:17:31] Wait, what? I know what we're like. No, I was supposed to leave my husband's across the street. 

Joy [00:17:36] The end of the conversation. And, you know, like those moments where you get instant loyalty. Well, I. It was like instant loyalty. Talk about inclusion, right? Just right. So that that decision to go on that interview and go to Chicago and then I found out I was having a girl and I don't know, something just happened where I was like just really motivated, you know, like, honey, I can do this. I can, like, have a, you know, big executive job for the first time ever in a totally new industry while I'm pregnant with you and going to train like I can do all these things. So that was kind of like a step towards a step towards the entrepreneurial journey then, you know, I got to a probably about two years in and I had the opportunity to start a consulting firm with two former CEO Ross and I really wanted. To test the waters of could I. Side hustle and like you know figure out if if I could even do this long term. Like, could I be, you know, an external partner versus being internal? And so much of my value and my self-worth was wrapped up in being the internal go to person within a company. So when I was pregnant with my second child, I founded this this company, P5 Collaborative Consulting. And you know, the early bird ness came into play here of I could actually do that full time job, but I learned some really important things about what companies needed and what were some of the common pain points. And I also found out that I actually really like to sell, which you you know this better than anyone. When you're out on your own, that's just a part of it, right? That's a big part of it. 

Keri [00:19:26] Exactly. 

Joy [00:19:26] And so but I wasn't ready to like release the golden handcuffs of a full time job. My husband from day one, he's been a stay at home dad. We made that decision really intentionally and we made that decision before. We were like doing really well financially. And so there was just like, I think a practicality in the journey towards being self-employed of I had a great job and I loved it. And so I wasn't going to just, you know, abandon ship without a safety net and a game plan. So I when when my time at cargo is coming to an end, I really thought deeply about should I go to P five collaborative consulting for B full time there or should I go take another chief people officer job? And I got really lucky to get the get the role at Dataiku and I just learned so much about myself and about scaling and tech especially. And, but also what I learned about myself in that year was even though is in this big job and had, you know, so much responsibility, I kind of gotten away from who I really was and what I really feel like my core strengths were, which were really around leadership development and coaching. So, you know, no better time to start a company than the pandemic. But I was lucky enough to to decide to start ScaleJOY and have Dataiku keep me on as a consultant for a while to kind of bridge that gap. So all of this is, you know, a series of career decisions with this ultimate goal of being an entrepreneur. And I've been in that seat for almost two years. And I think that in every step of the way, there was a little bit of courage, but with some with a dose of just reality of of taking my time, planning the seeds, testing and learning that that got me here today. So hopefully that makes sense of why it was a series of decisions that led to it. So now I'm I'm just I feel like I'm fully in my zone of strength. I feel like I'm making an impact in a really meaningful way. And I'm doing it on my own terms, which is a pretty awesome place to be. I feel very lucky. 

Keri [00:21:41] That's about, well, congratulations for two years because we you know, I think it's very difficult to keep a business going. Kelly and I know we celebrated five years and we looked at the stats out. There are grim stats of how many companies fail at the five year mark, seven year mark, ten year mark. When you're mark, all that, all that other stats do not increase your joy. Joy, but congratulations. So I want to go back like 12 years ago, like I want to be an entrepreneur. How did you even because a lot of people don't really sometimes fall into it enough. But you were so intentional. And how did you even feel? Like how did you even know? I mean, they're entrepreneurs 12 years ago, but like especially are like, how did you like what about you? You're like, no, this is it for me. Like, I really like this. I'm going to be an entrepreneur. 

Joy [00:22:34] Well, I think it's twofold. The first thing that comes to my mind is playing Barbies. Okay, stay with me. With that.  

Keri [00:22:42] I'm listening. Come on, girl.  

Joy [00:22:44] My my little sister is. It's like a deep, deep place of trauma for her when we talk about this. So apparently when we played Barbies growing up, we would always start by like setting the stage of our Barbies life. So it was, you know, they live in a loft in Brooklyn. They live in a mansion in Malibu on the cliffs like we always started with, like the house and the lifestyle. And then we would build the house. So we didn't actually have a Barbie house. We had like wooden blocks that we would draw with pencil on to make furniture and to make a studio. And my sister's like, Joy, you've always been a builder. You never, ever wanted to actually play the game. You just wanted to build and then, like, move on. 

Keri [00:23:30] Oh, my gosh. 

Joy [00:23:31] And I think that's kind of part of it. Like, if I look back at the Journal, I didn't know necessarily what I wanted to build. I wanted to write. I wanted to have like a boutique. I wanted to have a bed and breakfast. I had to create a learning platform. Like the ideas have been all over the place. Yeah. So my coach said to me when I was, you know, really ready to start something, I still wasn't exactly sure what I was going to start writing. And he goes, Joy, just launch like just launch with one thing and the product is going to change over time. It's important that you just launch. So I think that I think I've always been a builder and and I think that I've always been really excited about innovation and doing things differently. And so I think that's that's probably at the core of it. 

Keri [00:24:21] Yeah. I saw there are plenty of abandoned Barbie homes like you built Malibu House and then just left it in. 

Joy [00:24:31] And we had this block, this literally like wooden blocks that the my grandpa had hand crafted for us. Wow. And the block set was intended to, like, be a castle when you put it all together. It was this beautiful wooden castle. So it was the perfect starting point for a Barbie house. And then we would literally draw a pencil on the blocks to make them different things, then literally a reset. So it was never abandoned. It was like varnished. It was writing for a clean slate every time. 

Keri [00:24:58] And so your poor sister, did she want to, like, play in the house. 

Joy [00:25:02] Yes. She was very excited once the stage was set and then, you know, her big sister abandoned her. 

Keri [00:25:08] Oh, my goodness. 

Joy [00:25:10] I said some Barbie is tonight and we should just play. That's right. 

Keri [00:25:15] The next podcast is with her. Yeah, well, my biggest slave parents when my sister abandoned her house. 

Joy [00:25:24] So that would be so good. 

Keri [00:25:26] And that's why now is that the sister that does, the anti-racists that we were talking about. 

Joy [00:25:30] That's my other sister. I have two and they're both brilliant and both would be amazing podcast guests, actually. 

Keri [00:25:35] Okay, well, let them know we're going to have the whole family on. 

Joy [00:25:38] Our whole family, my mom to come on next. 

Keri [00:25:42] Good. Really dig into that Barbie trauma. I appreciate that. So I love that you're a builder. And so what now when I want to talk about two more things for sure before we get to that, your advice? One is that I can't I have to pick up what you're saying about the self-confidence and that it's hard for women even like just it's it is hard and so what have you and you mentioned it and so what have you done to feel really comfortable in going, no, I can do it and and how have you said it kind of came naturally to you? What kind of advice do you have for women who we we struggle with that society doesn't encourage that as well.  

Joy [00:26:21] So so Brené Brown just she had this awesome Instagram post a couple of weeks ago and it was like a birthday candle flickering. And her message was with her kids. She talks about how there's a lot of people who want to blow out your candle and like, you should be the kind of person who lights people's candles. And I think about that and the cultivation of the people you spend time with, and that I have really intentionally cultivated the network to be people who are birthday candle lighters. And. And it's weird, right? How many, especially women, are just not. Mm hmm. And luckily, I think that's really changing. I think that's really changing. And so I think that's one thing is just intentionally surrounding yourself with people who are champions for you and see you as you are and just want to celebrate that. Yes. Another thing is. My mom always said to me and my dad, too, actually, you can do anything that you set your mind to. Mm hmm. And just like that was a drum beat. And listen, my parents were divorced. My mom was married and divorced five times. We didn't have, like, this picture perfect childhood. But I always had that constant drumbeat of their belief in me that I could do whatever I set my mind to. But like that, the work was the work was going to come and that the work was important. That's a piece of the self-confidence, too, is that I never felt like I was the smartest one or the most privileged one. But I always knew I could rely on my work ethic. And I had confidence in that, in that if I just if I just surround myself with people who are champions and smarter than me and are willing to share their wisdom and put in the work, I just. I think I can do anything. 

Keri [00:28:34] Hmm. I was going to say, Joy, a good you're a good Midwesterner. You know, with Minnesota, with that work ethic, Joy. 

Joy [00:28:42] It's the Norwegian roots. What can you say? 

Keri [00:28:44] It is. You have it listening. Most of the listeners are Kelly and I are of German descent. And Kelly and I laugh all the time like the love language of Germans is. Did you do more work to your house? Work. More service? 

Kelly [00:28:59] Maybe that's your service all the time. 

Keri [00:29:03] You're clean the house work some more. And then at the end of the day, you look back and go, Oh man, I did a lot of work today. 

Joy [00:29:10] It feels so good.  

Keri [00:29:11] It feels so good for us. But let me just jump in to the advice so you have when you had when you were pregnant with your daughter, what advice would you give her now? What's the advice you give her but... 

Keri [00:29:26] That advice for listeners? But I just want to make it so personal. I like what advice you're going to give your beautiful daughter. 

Joy [00:29:32] Well, and I now have two daughters. And so it's double, double whammy. 

Keri [00:29:37] Double advice now. So now that weight of two beautiful daughters is on you. 

Joy [00:29:42] So much weight. And all day long I'm thinking about how I'm messing it up. 

Keri [00:29:50] It doesn't go away. That does it go away. 

Joy [00:29:54] It's only going to get harder. Oh, really, really, really. Get to know who you are and what you love. And just double down on that. Oh, be a birthday candle lighter.  

Keri [00:30:10] Yes. 

Joy [00:30:12] Find people who light your candle and fan the flame.  

Keri [00:30:15] Yeah.  

Joy [00:30:18] Be kind. And. The journey is really, really gritty, but like you got to pay attention to the journey because it is also so rewarding. And I think we have just. Societally especially around work gotten so outcome focused and I kind of blame LinkedIn you know it's like somebody changed jobs, left a company or got promoted. Let's celebrate it. And I'm like, I want to know, like the messy middle. I want to know, like, their mundanity of excellence. Like, what did they go through to get there? And I really want my kids to feel that of like, it's going to be hard, but, like, the heart is good. Like, lean into the discomfort. 

Keri [00:31:00] Hmm. And you said it's outcome. And what's interesting about outcome. Like, I have a new job, or I get married or, you know, or even the birth of a child. That is a one moment. Mm hmm. Is. And if you're only focused on that one moment, I mean, how many times do you change a job? I mean, let's say ten or 12 times. Yeah. 

Joy [00:31:23] Yeah. 

Keri [00:31:23] That's only ten or 12 times in your 80 year life or so. So if you focus on the journey, that is far more rewarding and all the stops in between and what got you there. And that's why we like that question for our podcast is we want to know that kind of messy part because people can look at you and go, Oh, it was easy. Tell her, oh, she just, you know, all of a sudden woke up one day and she's an entrepreneur. No, it was 12 year journey. 

Joy [00:31:50] Totally. Yeah. 

Keri [00:31:52] Well, I. I appreciate the the words of wisdom to to your daughters. I know Kelly does, too. And because we well, we're so we started with we record we don't start recording, of course, immediately with our guests. And so we always kind of chit chat. And Kelly and I were saying, Enjoy. We're just so happy to meet all these kickass women and Joy being one of them and now raising two more. So it's quite amazing. So what are your thoughts, Kel? 

Kelly [00:32:21] Well, I appreciate so much about what you shared is a common theme that we have that we've seen emerge from our podcast. Joy is the theme of increased self awareness. And so one of your tips of advice is really getting to know who you are and what you love. That really does fall in line with what a lot of our guests have said, which is the more I knew about myself and learned about myself, whether it was because of an assessment, I talk and I kind of learned it through that or just through the process of trial and error and having jobs that I knew I really didn't like, but I learned something from it, or having my dream job and recognizing that I would always want to do that for the rest of my life. That having that self-awareness really does help you understand not only yourself better, but what it is that you're looking for yourself for the future. So I'm curious, as you were. Is is your because you ventured out a couple of times in your as an entrepreneur. What did you maybe how did you approach the second time differently than the first time? 

Joy [00:33:26] Well, and to just, like, double click on what you were saying to, you know, I don't think a lot of people are taking the time to reflect along the way. Like I had this great CFO, I worked with who every six months, he took a day to reflect on what he learned. The six months pass. Mm hmm. And he kept, like, literally one journal where he kept it all in. And I'm like, God, that's the principle. Like, I should start doing that, right? So just like the the intentionality of reflecting. But sorry, I diverted. So what was the question again? I missed that. 

Kelly [00:34:00] Yeah, I was just. I was just curious. 

Kelly [00:34:01] No, I mean, I love that idea, too, of taking that six months and really reflecting back. I mean, if we all did that, just imagine how much better life could be anyways. So the question was, as you approach this, you had but you were an entrepreneur a couple of times now. So as you approach that second kind of stint, that second new position of of your entrepreneurship, what did it how did you approach it differently?  

Joy [00:34:29] Yes. Or did you. I did. Yes, I did. Well, the first thing is, you know, the first time around, it was a side hustle. And so it's just, you know, a completely different mindset versus going all in. So that was one thing. The other thing was like really, really being thoughtful about whether I wanted to do it with other people or stuff. And so I have an amazing relationship with my two co-founders from the previous company. But really I thought deeply that I wanted to focus like I wanted to focus on one specific need that was out there and just really prove to myself that I could I could help solve that problem. And I remember the conversations I had with my two co-founders who both were significantly more experienced in their careers. And there was a bit of imposter syndrome, even with them of like, as long as I'm here with them, I don't know if I'll fully push myself to the limits because I am like the safety and the security of two other people who I care about so much, and I know of my best interest who are more experienced than me. So it was a really like intentional move to be independent, kind of to prove to myself that I could. And then I think the only other thing is that I mean, and I'm kind of in this right now of of is this a lifestyle business or is this something I want to, like make huge? And I'm grappling with that decision right now. And I'm sure you you both can probably relate to that. And maybe you've known all along what you what you wanted. But I kind of like because I took my coach's advice and just launched the business is just, you know, it's it's kind of just unfolding and happening without a ton of, you know, a master plan. And it now I'm starting to think about the master plan and trying to decide, you know, what is really the opportunity here and what do I want my life to look like. And it's been really, really, really nice to be able to be. I just moved to I live in South Carolina. I literally live a couple of blocks from the beach and I'm very present with my husband and my kids for the first time. So I'm just and just being really thoughtful about what the next step is. And so I think that that's part of the entrepreneurial journey, too, as just checking in with yourself to understand like how is it going and what do I want next and how do I get there? So I'm very much in the middle of that right now. 

Kelly [00:37:06] Good for you.

Kelly [00:37:06] And it is I think that's the great thing about being an entrepreneur is you can make those adjustments as you need to. And like you said, because you are a solo entrepreneur, you have the benefit of being able to make that decision 100% yourself. Yes. And so, you know, Kira and I have talked about what we like. We have an empire, probably not just because we're not really interested in having employees, but we're okay with it. And, you know, so there's things that you make decisions about that are very intentional to your point of intentionality throughout this entire podcast. And so as long as you're able to have those kind of deeper conversations and be aligned with it for yourself and be okay with it. That I think that frees you from an expectation of something else or feeling like you need to be somewhere else or in a in a competition with another another person. 

Joy [00:38:00] 100%. Yep. And it's interesting because I have brought on to contract employees and I have this theory that like the future of work is all contract. But if. And these two women who couldn't be more different than each other or me. 1/1 of all, I think I'm still in shock of how much bandwidth I've gotten back just from from people giving me 15 hours of their time per week. And to that how committed they are to the company and to the vision and how they actually have other lives and other work that they get to do. And like holistically, they're just happier as a result. So I named the company Scale Joy partially because I hoped I had this intention of scaling myself. Right. And so I think, if anything, I put the manifestation out there in the name of the company that I think the I think the long game is to build, not necessarily empire, but definitely something that that doesn't require me to be doing all the things every day and is accessible. Yeah. 

Kelly [00:39:08] Well, Joy, you're certainly someone that we're so honored to have been able to talk to on our podcast. We've I've taken just a ton of notes, and certainly we're so grateful to you for sharing your story with us. And I just love your confidence. You do speak so confidently and with just a passion for what you do. It's clear that you love the journey you've taken and you're very appreciative of every step of the journey. So we're so grateful to you for sharing your story with us. Please check out the show notes for our listeners with all of the information about joy. Please connect with her as well. I think it's definitely a worthwhile connection for all of us to have. Thank you again, Joy, for sharing your pain, for sharing your story on our podcast.  

Joy [00:39:54] Thank you so much for having me. I had so much fun and I learned a lot and I can't wait to see and touch you. 

Kelly [00:40:00] Thank you for listening to the Recharge Your Life podcast. Please sign up for our newsletter at And follow us on social media. You can find us on LinkedIn at Abbracci Group. Instagram at WarriorsofHR and Twitter at Warriors_HR. Remember to subscribe to our podcast. Leave a review and please tell a friend and be sure to drop us a note on how you are recharging your life. We can't wait to hear from you.